What next? This really should come as no surprise, considering what is at stake for Mormons in California who are standing up and defending traditional marriage, and exactly what that means. I've also said over and over again, to whoever will listen to me - that to stand for traditional marriage, does not mean that we hate homosexuals.
Like so many others who are watching the ploys of our opposition, it has been quite obvious to me - that those of us who have faith-based opinions about homosexuality, are being undermined at every turn in this debate...
Question:
Do you, as a faithful LDS member - hate homosexuals? Sorry, but I need to ask the question. I'm not trying to offend you... although that is offensive to me too!
Heads up:
IF you are a Mormon, who lives in the State of California, and you vote "yes" on Prop 8... guess what? You will be using your "voice" --- "against" those who are gay! In essence, you will be perpetuating a "hate" based proposition. What? Hold on... don't allow yourself to get too upset, yet...
Like I said, we should have expected something this sly -- in the very heated same-sex marriage battle, to throw a major wrench in the mix. Here goes...
This Just In:
Santa Maria Times "Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown has sabotaged Prop. 8, which has legally qualified for the November ballot.
The measure, in a positive way, states clearly for the protection of marriage “only ... between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”
But Jerry Brown has changed the people's thesis to his antithesis, which will now appear thusly on the fall ballot: “Proposition 8 will eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry.”
The people have stated what they are for. Jerry has made the people state what they are against."
Okay, now you can get upset!
But, only for a minute. Just be educated on what is happening here, and how the supporters of same-sex marriage are creating every loop-hole they can - to continue their battle, as we go forth to defend traditional marriage.
Question:
Since when have same-sex couples had the "right" to be married -- EVER? (Please don't forget that the recent happenings in California by the State Supreme Court are an abuse of powers by those in authority.)
The suggestion that Mormons who defend Marriage in California, are trying to eliminate something that does not even exist... Can you say "Arrogant"?
My purpose for this post, being the Well Behaved Mormon Women that I am, is to make sure that we as LDS members - have clarity in the ongoing spin that is rampant with this most important call to Defend Marriage in California.
Those defending marriage in California, who walk in the voting booth to vote YES on Prop. 8 need to know without a shadow of a doubt - that a Vote YES on Prop 8 is not taking away the rights of Gays to get married. First of all, they NEVER had such a right to be taken away. Second - that is NOT what this Amendment states.
Prop. 8 accomplishes one thing. It re-established and ensures what the people of California have already voted on ONCE before, which is - that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in the State of California. If a gay person wants to marry someone of the opposite sex... they have just as much a "Right" as the next citizen in California.
Regardless of the "wording" on the ballot when voters go to mark their vote - the actual Amendment itself, infers nothing of the kind in regard to discrimination.
A YES Vote on Prop 8 is saying that you Stand for Traditional Marriage - and has nothing to do with how you feel about homosexuals!
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Like so many others who are watching the ploys of our opposition, it has been quite obvious to me - that those of us who have faith-based opinions about homosexuality, are being undermined at every turn in this debate...
Question:
Do you, as a faithful LDS member - hate homosexuals? Sorry, but I need to ask the question. I'm not trying to offend you... although that is offensive to me too!
Heads up:
IF you are a Mormon, who lives in the State of California, and you vote "yes" on Prop 8... guess what? You will be using your "voice" --- "against" those who are gay! In essence, you will be perpetuating a "hate" based proposition. What? Hold on... don't allow yourself to get too upset, yet...
Like I said, we should have expected something this sly -- in the very heated same-sex marriage battle, to throw a major wrench in the mix. Here goes...
This Just In:
Santa Maria Times "Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown has sabotaged Prop. 8, which has legally qualified for the November ballot.
The measure, in a positive way, states clearly for the protection of marriage “only ... between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”
But Jerry Brown has changed the people's thesis to his antithesis, which will now appear thusly on the fall ballot: “Proposition 8 will eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry.”
The people have stated what they are for. Jerry has made the people state what they are against."
Okay, now you can get upset!
But, only for a minute. Just be educated on what is happening here, and how the supporters of same-sex marriage are creating every loop-hole they can - to continue their battle, as we go forth to defend traditional marriage.
Question:
Since when have same-sex couples had the "right" to be married -- EVER? (Please don't forget that the recent happenings in California by the State Supreme Court are an abuse of powers by those in authority.)
The suggestion that Mormons who defend Marriage in California, are trying to eliminate something that does not even exist... Can you say "Arrogant"?
My purpose for this post, being the Well Behaved Mormon Women that I am, is to make sure that we as LDS members - have clarity in the ongoing spin that is rampant with this most important call to Defend Marriage in California.
Those defending marriage in California, who walk in the voting booth to vote YES on Prop. 8 need to know without a shadow of a doubt - that a Vote YES on Prop 8 is not taking away the rights of Gays to get married. First of all, they NEVER had such a right to be taken away. Second - that is NOT what this Amendment states.
Prop. 8 accomplishes one thing. It re-established and ensures what the people of California have already voted on ONCE before, which is - that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in the State of California. If a gay person wants to marry someone of the opposite sex... they have just as much a "Right" as the next citizen in California.
Regardless of the "wording" on the ballot when voters go to mark their vote - the actual Amendment itself, infers nothing of the kind in regard to discrimination.
A YES Vote on Prop 8 is saying that you Stand for Traditional Marriage - and has nothing to do with how you feel about homosexuals!
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
My sweet Sister ~
ReplyDeleteI am so glad that I do not live in CA.
I do not believe that in any shape way or form that the Church should even be involved in this issue.
Seperation between Church and State is what has kept us free. I amy or may not agree with our laws or ruling and generally believe our Govt. is a huge mess.
I believe in our Constitution almost as strongly as my Tesimony.
I am greatly disturbed by Church involement in any legal issue.Regardless of what it is or what I believe.
I am so glad my SP hasn't had to call me in. That is just wrong.
I do not believe Jesus is leading that Priesthood decision.
I am so grateful for Free Agency and the right to agree to disagree with many of my LDS family.
suzannpappan -
ReplyDeleteI respect your opinion...
For me personally, it would not have been necessary for my SP to contact me - I am personally compelled to do what I believe is right - in standing for the defense of traditional marriage in California. I think very well for myself, but am happy that the LDS Church is right there with me.
I feel deeply blessed to live in California, so that I am able to speak up and for -- what I believe to be a moral issue.
Lastly, I am grateful to belong to a Church that Stands for what it believes and teaches, regarding that which is moral.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Wow, it's scary what is happening right under our noses. Thank you for standing-up for what you believe in! Thank you for defending traditional marriage. All other ways will bring misery and destruction in the end; just like in Sodom and Gomorah. We know the prophecies and are so blessed to have a watchman on the tower!
ReplyDeleteHeidi -
ReplyDeleteFor those who know the prophecies of the Last Days, it is quite alarming to say the least. I am thankful for Living Prophets upon the earth today, whom we can choose to follow, in full confidence...
I learned only recently, that the only other time-period in the history of the world, where the practice of same-sex marriage was recognized by law - were in the "days of Noah".
Most of us are aware that homosexuality, among other sins - was rampant during this period, but apparently - it was the legalization of same-sex marriages - that appears to have broken the dam!
Thank you for taking the time to comment on this issue of same-sex marriage in California. It is good to "stand" along side of you...
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Hi, I just happened upon your blog through a friend's blog. I understand the Church's stand about Prop 8. I would expect nothing less. I am a lesbian who grew up in the church and practiced until probably 2 years ago. I understand your point of view, but I also know the other side -- which is to be able to have the choice, if I so choose, to marry my partner. I think the only thing that bothers me about the church getting involved is that, perhaps, it should have or could have been presented as "vote what you believe to be right". I do not force my orientation or my beliefs on others. I try to live my life to care about and understand others.I apologize for going on like this, I would just like to ask that others, like yourself, take a look at the other side, even if you don't agree with it.
ReplyDeleteHi lis-
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to comment and share your very personal feelings on this sensitive issue...
As an active member of the Church, I do not feel as though I have been "commanded" to act one way or another.
The letter that was read in Sacrament Meetings in California, asked members to "do all that [they] can" in passing prop 8. Stakes throughout California have joined with other faith-based organizations to go out and speak up about Prop 8. It is a choice. I honestly don't see it any other way.
My position, is that I personally feel strongly, that when our LDS Leaders counsel us, strongly - that I will listen and do what I can to follow their direction.
From a religious perspective, this is not political -- it is a moral issue that has enormous ramifications for many - if we are not able to defend traditional marriage in California.
As U.S. Citizen, we must also stand up and say that what these four Supreme Court justices have done, in arrogantly overturning the vote of the people of California - is just illegal and wrong.
I have members of my own family, very close to me personally - that have made similar choices to yours. Choosing to not practice homosexuality, is the right choice - if you have a testimony of The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If you base your choice in this reason, then you must also choose to follow living prophets. Personally, I feel that we risk picking and choosing - if we do not.
Thank you again for commenting.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Wow, this is a touchy topic! Just want to share my opinion. I think homosexuals should be able to marry each other if they want to show that level of commitment, regardless of whether we think it is a sin or not. I really don't see it being a government/political decision at all. And personally I don't have a moral objection to it. According to our religion they are already committing a sin whether it is formalized in marriage or not.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have is that if it is recognized as a legal marriage, they get all the benefits of traditional marriage. The whole point of giving tax breaks/benefits to married couples is that numerous studies have shown that marriage between a man and a woman produces a better situation for society and for raising children. Obviously there are exceptions to both sides, but overall the country is better off by having legal marriages between man and woman. So if that is the case, WHY should we offer the same benefits to situations that are NOT ideal. Should a single parent get the same tax breaks as a married couple? No because it is worse for society to have more single parents. Many studies show that parents from single family homes have a much harder time. Again there are exceptions, but that is the statistic.
The government gives tax breaks to people who buy houses because it is better for our economy if you own a house. So do all the renters need to band together and fight to get that same benefit just to be "fair"? NO! They CHOSE to rent, knowing the laws and tax codes of the land. Just because they complain loud enough doesn't change the fact that they do not meet the qualification for that tax break.
I'm not sure my opinion on insurance benefits and what not. But I think each individual company should have the right to decide that based on THEIR values and beliefs.
Sorry to be so long-winded. i have thought about this a lot because I have several gay family members and a very good friend. So I do understand their feelings about it.
The CA Supreme Court did exactly what it was appointed to do and it was neither wrong, nor illegal. Their job is to interpret the constitution of the State of California. It is a part of a checks and balances built into our system so the majority doesn't vote in discrimination against a minority. No matter what the people vote, if it is against the State Constitution it is still illegal.
ReplyDeleteJust a comment on Jodi's comment above - Studies have shown that married people are happier, have higher incomes, etc. So, why are we wanting to deny these benefits to a whole segment of society? Who is to say those same benefits won't be there for two women who choose to marry? As far as raising children go, there are quite a few studies that show there are no major differences in children raised by gay couple than heterosexual couples other than the children raised by gay couples tend to be a bit more tolerant.
Jay -
ReplyDeleteI "respectfully" could not disagree with you more. I have dealt extensively with your position here...
Same-Sex Marriage is Now Legal in California -But it is NOT the Will of the People Who Voted!
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
I think you are missing my point. The will of the people cannot be allowed to overrule the constitution. That is why we have Supreme Courts. If the will of the people had been allowed in Missouri in the 1800's, where would we be today? The mormons would have been exterminated. The will of the people is not always *right*. Remember, we as mormons, are also a minority in this country, and many despise us. How will we react when the majority votes to take our rights away? Will we then think it is OK for the *activist judges* to step in and say that isn't right? Or will we meekly say - well, that is what the people want . . .
ReplyDeleteJodi -
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your taking the time to leave your opinion. I disagree with much of what you feel in this debate.
There are many ways, that homosexuals "could" obtain the "rights" that they feel that they should have as U.S. citizens, but - it is neither right, nor necessary for them to seek these things -- under the guise of "marriage".
Marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman - PERIOD.
"The Proclamation on the Family" specifically states this, as well as children are "entitled" to be born in a family with both a mother and a father.
On this blog, I am speaking strictly from an LDS perspective, which is faith-based. I understand this position is not appealing to most who do not base their foundational position in God.
Living Prophets have spoken clearly on this subject. It is not political - it is "moral". As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints - IMHO, making a personal choice to follow Living Prophets is a dividing issue even within the Church.
Please read the entire commentary on the LDS Newsroom entitled "The Divine Institution of Marriage". It is extensive and will give you answers to the concerns that you might have, in regards to standing up and supporting LDS Leadership.
I believe that the better education we are willing to seek out on this issue, the more we will be likely to stand up and defend traditional marriage.
For my children, and my children's children - this is worth doing "all that you can" to ensure the kind of world that they are "entitled" to be born into...
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-divine-institution-of-marriage
Jay -
ReplyDeleteRespectfully, there is no possible way, that you read the article I posted previously, AND the comments section, where your concerns are addressed extensively in the multitudes of comments on my Hubpage, regarding this very topic.
I invited an experienced law attorney to comment on that blog. Please read the excellent discussion on that blog - to know my complete position on this topic.
If the "majority" of the people, through the use of proper protocol - vote for same-sex marriage - so be it. The facts are - that the voice of the people did use proper protocol in California and voted to ONLY recognize marriage between a man and a woman. Period.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Perhaps you will like this article as well...
Mormons in California Called to Defend Marriage by Top LDS Leaders
Jay-
ReplyDeleteThe studies I read were regarding marriage between a man and a woman leading to the benefits of society. Whether people like it or not that is what the stastistics show. And I also prefaced with the fact that of course there are exceptions either way.
LDSNana- I agree with you from a religious point of view. There is no question. I was just trying to bring a political view to light, since people always want to discredit the religious view by saying it is discriminating. When I say I don't mind if they "marry" I mean if that is what THEY want to consider it, I don't care. But of course the state, etc. will not recognize it as a marriage and will not provide the same benefits. I see why you are so strong against them calling it anything like a marriage, so I guess we agree to disagree. That part doesn't seem like a huge deal, it's when we officially RECOGNIZE them as married that is the problem, like you mentioned about the government doing in the times of Noah.
Jodi -
ReplyDeleteThe benefits that a man and a woman who are married, receive from the government and society, were implemented to encourage traditional marriage, which is best for society.
Traditional marriage is how societies, culture and morality perpetuate themselves from one generation to the next...
In other words, the begetting of children, which forms the core unit of society -- The Family - is not only naturally perpetuated within a marriage ONLY between a man and a woman, but is the absolute best unit to do so...
This is what we want to ensure continues. Homosexuals, although there are likely situations where loving families exists - is an exception to the norm...
Marriage is not for two people, who simply want to focus on themselves - and gain benefits for being married. I understand that not every heterosexual couple can have children themselves, but marriage as an institution - is that unit, which looks forward to a continuation in some way...
From the LDS perspective, a couple that are unable to have children now, can look forward to an eternal family.
I am sure you are aware, that those who practice homosexuality, have the exact same right as you or I.
If anyone of us, choose to "marry" someone of the opposite sex -- we may do so. In this, there are equal rights.
Gays want to redefine marriage, to something that is corrupt.
Those who stand with the LDS leaders and other faith-based organizations, have the desire to defend the ONLY definition of marriage, which is ordained of God.
Those who are gay, are perfectly able to form a legal partnership, and seek for benefits they desire -- but we stand firmly against them wanting to call it "marriage".
I hope you had a chance to use the link I placed to the LDS Newsroom - on The Divine Institution of Marriage. It is very informative, and addresses in a very sound way, the concerns that you have...
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
a well behaved woman
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with you, I have been following your blogs and applaud you.
I am all for free agency. If some choose to live their lives by practicing homosexuality then that is their choice. However, as you reminded everyone marriage is ordained of God. It is as old as time, a tradition and a covenant. Their need to take that away from us, to redefine the meaning of marriage is selfish and hypocritical as they ask for us to respect their way of life. Do we not deserve the same respect? (I too have relatives and family who are homosexual, I respect their choice, I ask for that same respect.)
my little kingdom -
ReplyDeleteIt is good to stand with such a woman as yourself:-)
Agency is a powerful principle, that comes with deep responsibility. The use of agency, does not imply that we have a right to overpower that which is right and good in this world.
Traditional marriage is not only right, it is good -- good for mankind -- the whole of it...
We have been given our agency, with an plan - to learn how to use it correctly.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
I know your reasons for being for prop 8 are valid to you and your faith. However, the laws of our state on not based on religion.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the Yes on 8 campaign only promotes hate. And isn't hate a sin?
mandy and pat
ReplyDeleteMy reasons for supporting Prop. 8 are my desire to preserve traditional marriage and ultimately the family. My faith is a very important part of my life and who I am.
As a California citizen, I have the right to vote my conscious and perpetuate that which I personally believe to be the best for society at large -- with my vote. My vote has as much power as the next and as I choose to exercise that powser I am within my right - regardless of my religious affiliation.
Same-sex marriage is a moral issue, of which I stand firm in believing that this is best for all of society.
Laws are based in the morality of a society. If that extends from an individuals personal beliefs, then so be it.
Laws have always been intended for the good of society and are founded in the morality of the whole.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon